Vincent Technical
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VINCENT GAS TANKS
AND SEATS
(see
paint section too..)
Seat Base: Marine
ply is excellent, the reason for this is that each lamination or layer
of wood is perfect, no holes are left in it, and the knots are very very
tight leaving absolutely no air holes between the layers. the quality
of the material is very good to excellent and the adhesive used - is not
water based - therefor very resilient to water. there are many other types
of wood laminates that are made with these characteristics now days such
as Multi-laminates where there is a greater a amount of thinner laminations
therefor increasing the structural integrity of your plywood. The best
thing you can do is take a trip to your local 'exotic wood' or fine lumber
store - you wont find what you need at the 'Home' type hardware box stores,
find your local wood place and talk to the folks behind the counter - they
often have offcut sizes , and you can ask about the adhesive types as well
as the quality of the laminates. I've got some if you cant find anything
that i can mail to you enough to make your seat , but i'm sure the postage
would cost more than buying it locally. after you've made the wood choice,
as indicated by others use a high end sealers (you could stain it black
while you're at it if you so choose) drill all your holes etc, finish machine
the blank and the seal it , and for good measure, when you're done,,,,seal
it again. marc 6/2/09
Tank Bag:
http://www.fieldsheer.com/site2009/ff/productspage/EiffelTankBag.htm
Bruce Metcalf 5/15/09
I have a "standard" Eclipse
tank bag which was a hand me down from
another Vin owner. It works very well with the standard Vincent tank as
far as the mounting straps go and is quite stable but I would recommend
a tank cover if you want to protect a nice paint job. Many years and UV
light have clouded the clear vinyl cover of the map pocket somewhat on
mine but otherwise it has proved pretty robust any I particularly like
the side pockets for easy access to stuff. Like a camping tent one has
to spray it with a good water repellent from time to time to make sure
contents stay dry.
The bag is large enough that it covers the gas
cap so one has to make an air tunnel (mine is carved out of a chunk of
ps foam) so as it does not block the breather. At refueling stops the bag
has to be loosened on the front straps to allow access to the gas cap.
Tim Holcroft 5/15/09
I originally had my
tank
cracks brazed, but that was before TIG
was available. I now have them TIG welded. In either case I drill
a 1/16 inch hole at the
either end of the crack to stop further growth
then have the tank brazed or TIGed. John Mead 4/16/09
Petrol tank leaks:
When they start leaking there the problem is in the forward tank mounts.Good
idea to change rubbers frequently;don't reuse the old ones if they are
hard. Bones has a pressure tester for Vincent tanks.He submerges
them and pumps in a little air. Also be careful welding tanks.A
guy I respect saw one blow up after 20 years!! You can pump in exhaust
fumes to eliminate any oxygen. Somer 4/16/09
Good point about the need
to purge the tank during welding. I use
a small table outdoors for welding tanks, and back my truck up next to
it. A 1-meter length of VW hot-air heater tubing (as used on old beetles
to get air from the fan shroud to the heater boxes) connects 1 tailpipe
to the filler neck. Petcocks should be removed to give as much flow as
possible. Be wary of pressurizing the tank (especially automobile tanks:
1 psi = 144 pounds of push on each square foot of tanks surface, so a little
pressure can do a lot of damage.) I also wear a leather welding jacket
and a full face shield; it’s hot, but I know I’d be hotter if it flashed.
Tom Volkmann 4/16/09
Petseal sloughing off with Methanol:
One of the Scots members has a B Shadow which has suffered in this way
(with "Old Petseal"). The flakes were very thin, maybe 15 -30 thou, just
the right size to break up and plug the fuel system. I used a coating I
bought from Frosts, about 5 years ago, called something like K9P. So far,
so good, run on unleaded, with the occasional belt of Avgas. The
only practical difference between ethanol and methanol is that the first
can be drunk, the second can't. I think "methanol" is a contraction
of "methylated ethanol". I don't know if that is different from "methylated
spirits" (meths) but my late father-in-law used to start the 175 Francis
Barnett on which he went fishing on meth, then changed over to paraffin
(kerosene) once warmed up. Money were tight in them days... You can make
your own ethanol (hundreds of Norwegians do) from sugar and yeast. It's
been calculated that if all the yeast sold in Norway was used to make bread,
every Norwegian, man woman and child, must consume 18 loaves a day. Of
course I don't for one moment suggest you drink it, put it in your vehicle
and save the planet. I pass over in silence making a fuel with ecological
pretensions that used neat gives about 7 mpg in a 500 cc race motor. If
I were a cynic I'd say it was another way of subsidising farmers. But I'm
not, so I won't. Sunbeam 4/6/09
Ethanol has
2 carbon atoms & methanol only 1 carbon. If a chemist heard you saying
"methylated ethanol" then he might assume you were
talking about Methy Ethyl Ketone or alternatively you didn't
know what you were talking about. Many chemicals were used to "denature"
ethanol
& 10% Methanol was the most common but Isopropyl alcohol was also
used. It was all about excise duty on the pure stuff but
not on the denatured product. In England they used to put a blue
dye in it but here in Australia it is clear. Alyn of Thirroul
$/6/09
Seat Hump:
I took a piece of 5" stove pipe (opened up), traced and cut the profile
from the "seat well", hammered the perimeter flat and the job was done
in 10
minutes. Galvanized steel as well.
It could not have been any easier. Richard Friedman
2/27/09
When you're putting your
tank back on a useful tool is a piece
of 3/8" diameter mild steel with the end turned down to 1/4" diameter and
the nose
tapered. You put it through the rubber on the
first side and wriggle the pilot into the tapped hole which is then lined
up to accept your piloted
shoulder bolt, which you don't tighten fully.
You then go to the other side and repeat the process. Fit the bolts at
the rear of the tank before you
finally tighten the front ones.Roy Cross
2/20/09
Getting the rust out:I
have attached a 12"square of good quality plywood to a device consisting
of a 6" X 6" plate of 1/4" steel welded to a 14" long piece of 1" o.d.
iron pipe. I firmly attach the tank to the plywood panel..insert appoximately
1/4 lb. of ceramic media and 2 cups of dish washing detergent. This fiendish
thingee is then locked into the three jaw chuck( having been inserted through
the spindle hole from outside of the headstock). After Double Checking
for security I set the lathe on 'back gear' @ 3rpm. I let it run
for three hours at a time...never when I am more than half the shop length
from the set-up... and, eventually and with minimum risk or violence and
No viscous acids; Bob's Your Uncle... Dave R. 2/18/09
Gettting the gum out:
In any event, on Oct 4th, I bought a Shadow basket including its fuel tank
a third full of 32 year old high test and adding to the challenge, "indifferently"
stored during that time, leaving an extreme example of the "lacquer" gum
you referred to along with some superficial rust in the form of a pungent
sludge. I too wanted to preserve the exterior finish - not
because it was original - but to add to the planned antiqueing of this
machine to which now looks like a comfortable well worn but polished English
gentleman's boot here. The finish? Nothing spectucular, a Conway's
job superbly applied prior to 1959, but lined in gold paint rather than
gold leaf. To add to the challenge, 32 years of regular applications
of cat urine to this tank had turned the single stage enamel clear coat
- a popular top coat finish technique of the time - into a milky vinyl
type consistency exposing the fragile lacquer color coat and decals beneath
it.
As I've done over the years with Indian tanks (soldered not welded)
and on my Red Rap tank. I filled it half full with lacquer thinner
and a lb of 1 1/4 zinc plated roofing nails sat it on the work bench and
then made a daily habit as I passed by on the way to work with the
machine on the lift of slowly agitating it then letting it sit. Don't
recommend bb's, not enough mass, too smooth and have a tendency to want
to stick where any gum remains. Zinc plating on roofing nails is done very
thick to act partially in a self-sealing capacity when damaged (hammer
blow) and is rather soft. The perimeter edge of the head and the sharp
end do their job with less "violence" so to speak than required with other
metal based media when agitating by hand. Having less mass than a
bolt or nut, they are far less prone to dent your tank.
Unless you have pin holes leaks which might explain the presence of
a sealer in the first place, then your only vulnerability with a solvent
like lacquer thinner is from the vent on your cap (seal it) and when your
pouring in/draining off. I have a long tube which I affix to
the filler neck for both activities and apply a thin layer of grease as
a sacrificial barrier around the filler neck to act as a sacrificial barrier
for the short time it takes to reach for a rag if any splashing might occur.
Peter Williams 2/18/09
Removing petrol tank liner:
Old liner material will have to be removed before any effective repair
can be made. I would attempt to remove some small bits of the liner for
diagnostic experimentation with solvents. Start with Berryman, brake clean,
carb clean etc, and if none of those work, try acetone, NMP or TCE. MEK
should be a last resort. (They don’t call it Methyl-Ethyl-Death for nuthin!)
Once you have a solvent that works, even if it only works very slowly,
add a carton of BBs to the tank, and use them as a mechanical scouring
agent to work with the solvent. Be patient; it may take a while. If the
stuff is really stubborn, tumble the tank by wiring it to a car wheel driven
by the shaft of an electric motor. Email me if you want more info on how
to do this. (This is how I tumbled my UFM.) Beware that your pinholes may
get bigger as you do this. I will also caution you that
some of the aforementioned solvents are highly toxic and/or highly flammable.
Make sure you download a MSDS for whatever you are working with to avoid
hurting yourself or burning your house down. Nitrile chem. gloves and goggles
should be the minimum for safety gear. Tom Volkman 2/16/09
(Once
again....thevincent.com does NOT recommend use of any solvents.
Use of solvents is better left to professionals as some are reported to
be carcinogenic, flammable and/or highly toxic.)
RK Leighton offer replacement
squabs for Vincent seats, along
with replacement bases (Complete with all strengthening bars). Phone:
(44+) (0)121 359 0514 or E-mail:
info@rk-leighton.co.uk Neil. 1/6/08
Petrol tank
tap threads: 1/4"
BSPP (British Standard Parallel Pipe) with a major diameter of 0.518" and
19 threads per inch. Not to be confused with American 1/4" National
Pipe Thread (NPT) which has a major diameter of 0.540" and a pitch of 18
tpi. Ken Targett 9/17/08
Gold Leaf Pin Striping
on the tank: These were all hand
painted using lining brushes and they vary from a quarter to five sixteenths.
Anything within those sizes looks good. Roy Cross 9/4/08
Tank and UFM Cleaning
- Sealing: Rusteco is good.
http://www.rusteco.com/auto.htm
It ain't cheap, but can be reused. I've had a
big bucket of it for a couple years and have used it about 3 times, it's
still doing its thing. Safe, too. I am not big on their gel product, though,
but maybe I didn't use it correctly. You'll like that liquid stuff.
Bev Bowen 8/18/08
When I restored my Prince 5 years ago there was
corrosion
in the petrol tank. Having clean it out
as best as I could, I lined it with a white epoxy compound two pack product,
very successfully. A great advantage being you can see the tank contents
very easily and any sediment that can later accumulate. Be careful to mask
off the petrol tap threads before carrying out the process as they are
hell to clean up afterwards. The final result is excellent and very durable.The
supplier is :-
C.Wylde & Sons Ltd,
1 Roundhay Road,
Leeds LS8 5AJ (sorry I don't have their phone
no.)
Product :- Flo-Liner White Epoxy Compound ( a
pack contains 1 large tin and 1 small tin and is sufficient to treat a
Vincent tank)
Paul Craven. 3/11/07
There were 4 articles in the 'Throwing
Light on Some Obscure Components' Series describing gold
leaf lining and transfers; the relevant
MPH editions between April and July 94 (was it that long ago?) were:
No. 543 The Petrol Tank
No. 544 Enclosed D Lines
No. 545 Enclosed D Transfers
No. 546 Applying Gold Leaf
Frank Griffin 12/2/06
Tank Sealer:
The best out there is a product called Red Kote. You can get this through
some commercial truck stores or radiator shops. Holt BMW offers this
service for around $80 with about a 2 week turn around. Your original
paint will not be harmed. It's money well spent as it is a PITA to
do this. If your tank already has a white liner in it it will not
work. Red Kote is not compatable with Kreeme which is junk anyway.
Some folks use a product called POR wich is still not as good as the Red
Kote. Plus the Red Kote liner is reddish and it a more of a rubbery coating.
. Holt BMW/Ducati, 15530 US Rt. 50, East Athens, OH (740)593-6690.
BMW message board. 12/08/02
Removing Tank Sealer:
When
I acquired my bike, its fuel tank had been coated (probably with Kreem
although I'm not certain). Surface prep had evidently not been done
correctly, as rust had loosened the coating and chunks were coming loose
and ending up in the carbs. This did not
enhance performance, and created a fire hazard when debris held the float
needle open and the carbs overflowed.
Anyhow, Kreem advised me that their product is
soluble in acetone, so I bought a gallon at the Home Depot. This
worked very nicely; it actually dissolves the coating rather than just
softening it, so you can remove all the material if you're patient.
Also, acetone is one of the less-dangerous solvents to work with.
I'm not sure how universal it is with regard to other brands of coating,
but it may be worth a try. Dave Hartner 8/3/02 (thevincent.com
does NOT recommend Acetone as a solvent. Use of Acetone is better
left to professionals as it is reported to be carcinogenic.)
Your front tank
bolts can and should only be done up to
the shoulder, just captivating the rubber, the tank sits on this. No way
should the tank be clamped by the front bolt. All the clamping is done
at the back, by the two 5/16 bsf bolts two rubbers and a top plate of steel.
The rubber should be fitted with the head between the headstock and the
tank, the bolt should have a washer 3/4" diameter under the head. and the
shoulder bolt should be 3/4" long under the head. So that when the bolt
is done up tight to the shoulder, it lightly compresses the rubber to expand
in gently and grip the tank. should have no effect in clamping the tank
at all. Trevor Southwell 07/05/01
Bob Culver of Letchworth, UK (see
Drat engine case advert in a year old MPH) had Dunlopillo make some
NEW seat foams in the right material a
year or so back. Right shape and "weight" and standard length. Real labour
of love and very expensive at around £50 each. not stocked by VOCS
as they would rather stock something cheaper apparently. Arthur Farrow
12/29/00
Bob Culver has run out of the Dunlopillo
seat foams as of not very long ago. He
is having some polyether ones made subject to getting the underside geometry
of the squab of the correct contour, and the chemical composition of the
mix optimized. About a month he said and about GBP50 delivered UK. His
number when I rang today is: +43 (0)1462 673705. You may get it for this
price in US cos you won't pay the VAT. The seat arches are available from
West Country Sidecars in glass fibre (see MPH). The rest you can
make with your bare hands. Ken Tidswell 02/27/01
The short (old) style seat
is (about) 12" from the nose to the first high point and 22" from nose
to tail. The long seat is 15.5" to the first high point and 26 overall.
On this one the nose appears extended up the tank a bit and this part of
the extra length
doesn't help my own big end much. I find it less comfortable than the
short one also because the foam comes up more steeply to the middle crest
and makes it harder for one to slide back against it. Mike Hebb 12/29/00
Large
Petrol Tanks:
The large tank fitted to
Charlie Cannon's bike is not a Montlherry tank as it is the wrong
shape. I have been fortunate enough to see an original Montlherry tank
some time back, belonging to Pat Highsmith from Northern California. (currently
owned by Jim Baltusnik 5/06) These tanks were
identical at the front to the standard tank but were raised at the rear
by a couple of inches to give a capacity of about 4 1/4 UK gallons. On
side profile the top of the tank was almost horizontal. Charlie's tank
is a "one off" from an unknown source.
Things start to become interesting when you talk
about the correct locations for the gold lines and transfers. Series C's
are fairly straight forward, if you took the mean average of all the tanks
you could measure then you would not be far out with the positioning on
the transfers etc. The series B tank was something else. When I first
started painting tanks I went to Alan Lancaster's pub where on the wall
was an original advertising poster from the factory. It had photographs
of both sides of the same Series B and I had brought all I needed to faithfully
record the positioning of the gold lines etc. I was wasting my time, this
show model had the HRD about 1 inch out, in relation to the opposite side.
In truth you cannot see both sides of the tank at the same time and the
factory had not expected someone to inspect their poster years later with
a slide rule.
I have since taken detail measurements from several
so called original tanks and yes they are different, the gold lines were
applied by hand without the obvious use of a template. Very few people
will be able to draw an identical arch to the left and to the right freehand,
so don't let anyone tell you the lines on your tank are wrong.
A word of warning for anyone about to use Series
D Black Shadow transfers from the spares club. They look OK but over
the years the water soluble glue has disappeared from the backs and it
is only possible use them by painting them with a replacement glue.
For anyone who is interested the older tradesman
in Southern England (as described by Robert Watson) is still producing
4 3/4 gallon aluminum petrol tanks to my design but they now sport flush
aircraft fillers as the twist neck type appear unobtainable. If you know
different please mail me with the source. If you are interested in getting
one (photos available) then order early as the old guy only works one day
a week. Paul Adams 12/05/00
Vincent Colours: I've
actually seen pictures of one of the blue ones. It was called "Egyptian
Blue".It was a Touring Rapide. A few years ago, some NOS blue touring fenders
turned up. I also came across an orginal Shadow that was sent over for
the New York show. It had chrome hardware(this was common on show bikes)
and a blue tank. Over the years I've also come across original Touring
Raps that had red fenders and tanks. Charlie Taylor told me about having
a Shadow go through his shop that had an orginal red tank on it. Red was
not popular then. I've found several red raps over the years that were
repainted black upon removal from the crate. Some red ones also had white
seats. There were 17 Red Comets made, making them one of the rarest of
all Vincents. Somer Hooker 12/09/00
Rare Colours:
Perry Osgood's Shadow is a Red" White" Shadow with a 1A number. There is
another one too. One
of my friends found it a few years ago.He happened
to pull in into a service station on his Vin..A guy in there commented
that he knew where one of those was(Meaning a Vincent)It was still in the
hands of the orginal owner. See what happens when you RIDE your Vin.
Somer Hooker 12/09/00
Rare Colours:
On one of the sets of cases I just recorded for Gordon (Mr numbers) Powell
he said it was a "Red/Black" Rapide, which "I think the red/black ones
were black frame and fork parts with red tanks and mudguards (fenders?)".
Perry Osgood's bike was originally sold in Vancouver and has a /1A/ engine
number, painted red with polished cases but would question the touring
statement John! Although I'm sure Gordon or Perry could clarify if you
really wanted to know. I question it as Perry does not have touring
fenders on it and I know he wanted a very original restoration. Robert
Watson 12/09/00
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