1957 and 1959 Chloride Batteries LTD - Exide battery ads I have always wondered why the empty battery case supplied by restoration suppliers did not seem to match the 1947-1955 era period Vincent photos. After searching thru 1950's era Exide motorcycle battery ads it looks like the case design was changed in 1958 or 1959. So now we know this empty Exide case we purchase to look like a period battery is indeed an Exide motorcycle battery design, simply late 1950's. If anyone has further info please dont hesitate to contact me. I know the earlier Exide had a variety of Bakelite post knobs, some hex nut shaped, some large round knurled, some as shown. It would be nice to have some period documentation on the colors used on the Exide battery case logo

Your should also insert a fuse before the ammeter.  I use 15 Amp.  If your battery if heavily discharged when you first commission the system you may blow the fuse if you turn the headlight on.  Actually it is an inexpensive and meaningful test that I have run accidentally.  Assuming I built the generator (or at least it was wired as I would have), to motor the generator:
  - temporarily connect the F terminal to earth
  - temporarily connect the D terminal to +V
The armature should rotate smoothly clockwise as viewed from the drive end.    Doug Wood  5/14/10

To test your Miller D6 first determine which of the four wires are the field coil and which are the resistor.  To do so measure the resistance between all pairs.  If you measure two wires not connected, i.e. one from the resistor and one from the field coil you will measure a very high resistance. The resistance coil will measure two to three time higher than the field coil.  The resistance coil can be ignored for the moment. Pair a field coil wire with a brush.  Don't stress over which wire or which brush.  Pair the remaining field wire with the other brush.  Connect the two pair to a battery.  It does not take much thought to realize that the armature, the field coil and the battery are now all in parallel. The generator should now motor.  It should motor smoothly.  If it does not motor smoothly something is wrong and should be addressed.

If the armature rotates CW as viewed from the drive end then you guessed correctly.  If not swap the field wires and try again. Now take you volt meter and connect it in place of your battery.  Drive the armature CW and your generator should create a voltage.  If not something is wrong and needs to be addressed.
If the generator passed all tests is basically works and you can consider wiring it as a Lucas or as a Miller.     Doug Wood  5/29/09

In the first state the armature voltage is impressed directly across the field coil.  Assuming that the cut-out relay is closed this would also put the battery across the field coil.  If the voltage is low enough then the battery will be disconnected (as in start up conditions).  This will maximize the current flowing through the field coil, implying a maximized magnetic field.

In the second state, where the system has equilibrated (sort of), the current through the field coil is decreased but not to zero.  There is a resistor that is inserted in the field coil circuit.  The resistor, which is the second winding on the field coil (wound non-inductively) is the mechanism for decreasing the field coil current.

The third state has no current flowing through the field coil.  Without this current there can be little or no output voltage.

While this system sounds good, in practice it barely works.  It is a fragile design that typically has been abandoned for the simplier Lucas type voltage control (states 1 and 3 only).  I am not aware of any solid state regulators that will support the Miller regulation design,  This is not to say that they could be designed but rather that there would be little demand for them.  Based on that assessment I would hazard a guess that your 30 year design would require rewiring the Miller.

FWIW I will not rebuild a dynamo in the Miller configuration as I do not trust the reliability of the regulation system.
Doug Wood  5/28/09

Store Name: PUMA Store
Address:1670 Enterprise Pkwy.Unit E Twinsburg ,Ohio 44087 USA
Phone: (800) 354-
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330-425-2800
Fax: 330-425-2818
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http://www.puma-access.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=287&zenid=85370e6e350b5ffe572ff792b5d725c2

General sources of 6 and 12volt Halogen headlight bulbs:
http://www.startright.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=145_285_286&products_id=8662&zenid=4edbbd43957c80bbd25d3f9c04e551f4
http://www.nextag.com/h4-halogen-bulb-6-volt/products-html
http://store.candlepower.com/bconah4ha60b.html
http://www.flandersco.com/action.lasso?-search&-database=_Flan_Levers.fp5&-layout=Electrical&-Format=ElectricalResults.html&-Error=ElectricalError.html&-Operator=Contains&Electrical%20Photo%20Prefix=G
http://www.bikebandit.com/product/A4557898
http://www.yamaha-xt500.com/newshop/index.php?productID=101
Also, JC Whitney has them in 55/60W. Part number is ZX304576F.
Carl and John  12/1/08

If the armature rotates clockwise viewed from the drive end we have the field coil hooked up correctly.  Otherwise reverse the field coil wires and repeat.  It is necessary to get the dynamo to motor in the correct direction to ensure the field pole shoe is properly polarized.

Now comes the time to connect the regulator.  In general there are two types of which I know: high side switching and low side switching.  What does that mean?
The dynamo output voltage is limited by switching field coil on and off.  Output voltage too high?  Disconect the field coil.  Output voltage too low?   Reconnect the field coil.  Only one side of the coil is disconnected.

PODtronics and (I believe) Bell regulators switch the low (negative) side of the field coil.  This is true irrespective of positive or negative earth.  I cannot say with certainy anything about the switching of the JG or K-Tec units.

There are at least two 4BA screws coming through the brush plate.  One  of them may be common to the positive brush (it is when I rebuild a Miller).  It is worth checking with your Ohm meter.  The other is probably just a tie point for a field coil wire.  Check for (lack of) continuity to everything.    Doug Wood  6/1/07

I’ve made a replacement for the throttle twistgrip body with a homemade switch built into it for the horn. On the left-hand side, I’ve got a symmetrical lump of stainless which (i) acts as the clip for the valve lifter main bracket and (ii) houses the dip/flasher switch. The two thin wires run in a length of heatshrink from the headlamp shell to the underside of the handlebars between the handlebar mounting clips, where they go through a little hole and then run in opposite directions inside the handlebars and come out through little holes next to my lumps of stainless. All in all, it results in very uncluttered handlebars, with the clutch and valve-lifter levers and the horn and dip/flasher switches nicely placed.

The other nice feature is that the stop has broken in the Miller light switch, which fortuitously provides an extra position in which only the pilot bulb is on, so that can be used as a daytime running light without wasting precious Millertricity on the tail and speedo bulbs. I think I’ve got one of Goffy’s (NORBSA02@aol.com) 23 W halogen bulbs (http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffybulbs.htm) in there as the pilot bulb.   Ken    5/26/07

The ''T'' Clip headlight unit takes #70003,    or hella #1A6 003 402 812 12V  unit 154  The cost is about $33.00 +/- bucks.
The 7'' split rim headlight takes # 70476  @ about $ 42.00+/- bucks
 Run a modern quartz-halogen headlight bulb an  H4 of amy voltage, any wattage and the nice thing about these are, they have a parking bulb (nobody I know leaves a light on when parking),  already  built in.  For those states or countries that require a 'lights on' driving situation, don't touch the actual glass of the bulb.  JS Wilson  9/26/01

Jim Baltusnik 7/4/06

#1 For AC alternators.  Turns AC into regulated DC.  Creates heat in the process. This is a rectifier-regulator.

#2. For DC generators. This is a true regulator and controls output by modulating the field current.  They generate a small amount of heat as a by product.

The above mentioned #1 regulator is intended for AC alternators such as used on late BSA, Norton & Triumph.  Also used
on Alton, which is an AC alternator.  This regulator-rectifier turns the AC into regulated DC, and turns excess electrical energy into heat.  Do NOT cut off fins.  Do NOT mount in enclosed space.  Do NOT mount in Miller box.

#2  The second Podtronics regulator is a DC regulator intended to be used on DC generators (dynamos) such as those used on 50's (and earlier) BSA, Norton, Triumph, and Vincent using either Miller or Lucas generators. These are very efficient and yes, they CAN be mounted inside of the old mechanical Lucas and Miller regulators.  There is a small amount of heat generated as a by product, but is of no consequence.  (All components inside this regulator are certified up to 125 degrees C.)  We have done bench testing using a fibreglas replia Miller box with no problems after an hour of running time.
Bob Kizer  12/11/03

How to flash your field? Assuming you have a negative earth system and a Bell regulator, try temporarily connecting your armature output (possibly labeled "D" or if color coded a yellow wire) to the + terminal of your battery.  This will bypass the "cutout" diode in your regulator.  Then momentarily (< one second) connect your field output (labeled "F" or perhaps a green wire) to ground.  Your field is now flashed.  Disconnect all temperary connections and reconnect permanent connections.  Doug Wood  4/21/03

My steps are:
1. Disassemble - You shouldn't have to open the big nut in the middle of the Diaphragm but open everything else.
2. Clean any spider nests and rust out of the inside.
3. Check the current path for opens or shorts.
4. Clean the points and all screwed connectors to bare metal.
5. Clean and oil all threads.
6. Check coil for continuity. If it is bad, give up and get it rewound or find another horn.   If you don't have a meter, briefly apply voltage through the coil and see if you get magnetism.
7. Make sure the adjusting screw on the back really does change the point gap when turned and the spring works.
8. Reassemble and test. Use adjuster on the back to adjust the horn tone and volume. If it makes just one pop of the diaphragm when you try it, the points are not opening when the diaphragm pulls in. If it makes no noise, then the points are open when current is initially applied and they should start out closed.
9. When you get some noise, turn the adjusting screw till the sound stops in both directions and pick the best tone in between.
Be especially careful where wires attach to the back. If they are open and can get wet, it can short from the connection to the horn body and cook all your wiring. On the Vincent the horn wire is always hot and it's activated  by providing a ground path with the switch. An inline fuse is advisable.
10. Polish, paint, rechrome or whatever you like to the outside and you're in business.
Mike Hebb   3/9/02

No alteration to the crankcase is necessary. A slot must be machined into the kickstart cover. This modification is reversible. Should you wish to return to the original design, weld a piece of alloy to fill in the machined slot. The conversion is delivered as a kit including all the necessary parts exept the battery which is available from any modern bike shop.The kickstart cover and rachet pinion may be sent to the address below and will be returned ‘ready to fit’ with all the parts.The assembly can be done by any good Vincent enthusiast mechanic in a standard workshop.

Price :    1400 Euros the complete kit with a second hand checked starter motor,
                             available for positive earthed machine only.
              1500 Euros the same complete kit with a brand new starter motor,
                            available for any positive or negative earthed machine.

               Prices do not include postage or shipping charges.

Contact: Francois Grosset, Le Pont Ricoul, 35720 St Pierre de Plesguen, France.
             FAX: 33-299-73-94 17                 E-mail:  pontricoul@aol.com

KVF dated 1/51 P403K, H84
KVF dated 3/48 P403K
KVF dated 12/51 P403K cast in circular logo 1/2"dia.       jim

Telephone 440 498 0638.  Fax. 440498 9647 (new address/phone 1/19/02)
 

The ''T'' Clip headlight unit takes #70003,    or hella #1A6 003 402 812 12V  unit 154  The cost is about $33.00 +/- bucks.
The 7'' split rim headlight takes # 70476  @ about $ 42.00+/- bucks

 Run a modern quartz-halogen headlight bulb an  H4 of amy voltage, any wattage and the nice thing about these are, they have a parking bulb (nobody I know leaves a light on when parking),  already  built in.  For those states or countries that require a 'lights on' driving situation, don't touch the actual glass of the bulb.  JS Wilson  9/26/01

This started back in , I think 1989, when I was seen by Herve Hamon with a Kubota alternator in my hand at an Annual Rally ( Fort Purbrook, Portsmouth). Herve went home to France, and having, at that time some paternity leave  French, you know) for a year. A lot of spare time on his hands ( after putting Ettiene in the crib in the workshop, they train them the right way in France!)  Work was then done in producing some prototypes, using several different methods of drive ,and speeds. When it was found to be successful, but lacking in as much that it could only be used on twins, due to the large diameter of the rotor, it was decided to manufacture one of  three inches diameter, so that it could be used on all machines that used a Miller or Lucas dynamo.

The initial prototype parts were made by me, including the tooling for blanking out the segments for the stator( soft iron)  Much time was spent between here (Hayling Island ) and Auray on the southern coast of Brittany. Unfortunately One of the early prototypes was seen on a French bike by a British journalist, and publicity was given , long before any real development had been carried out. I was flooded out with enquiries from all over the World. This was something I did not need, having a business to run , sometimes 50 calls in a single day, and me not being able to give a sensible answer. Nowadays most of the parts are made in France, with only some gears made locally here in Portchester.I do not have any involvement in the project
now.

This is where I will disagree with the statement made that the magnetic pulsation's of the Kubota, are the cause of taking out the rollers on the primary chain. If a Kubota is held in the hand and given a quick twist of the wrist it will spin easily, until it slows down enough for the magnets to take over again . So when the alternator is running this effect makes no impression . What does happen is that there is a far greater load, than what was developed by the original dynamo. Bikes that have a Fiat or Bosch automobile dynamo have also been known to shed their rollers.  It`s the increased load that is the problem. That and poorly maintained chains , running far too slack.  Getting the sprocket in the right place , central to the links , and with a good clearance above the rollers, helps.  A plastic sprocket is being experimented with to see if it is a going concern.
Trevor  04/30/01

Use a megohmmeter with 500 volts applied.  1000 megohms is a reasonable value.  The capacitor needs to be disconnected from the coil.  Test hot at 180F.  Test the coil for leakage, same way.  Test the isolated coil for passive voltage with the 200 millivolt scale on an ordinary multimeter.  The higher the voltage(5 to 50 millivolts) the more water is is the coil.  Bake
it out for  day or two at 180F( post bake voltage should be less than 10 microvolts) and recoat with coil varnish.

Encourage Doug Wood and Bob Kizer to write a manual for these tests, defects, and cures.  Perry Gerhart  03/31/01

Yes, a megaohn meter will act as a capacitor tester as it will judge the ability to take on and hold a charge. (as does a capacitor tester) I"ve tested hundreds of Lucas capacitors and haven't found a "good" one yet.  They are all leaky to one degree or another.  Even if you find an NOS one still in the box, it will test leaky.  Lucas was ahead of their time in manufacturing biodegradable parts. (the capacitors used paper dialectric)   Bob Kizer  03/31/01

    The "poke your spoke" method of inserting something into the cylinder surely leaves much to be desired as far as accuracy goes. Moving the engine 5-l0 degrees is actually VERY little.

    Once again we refer to "40 Years On" where methods ranging from dial indicators to putting a bit of soap over the plug hole (and watching the bubble rise or fall) to give us Top Dead Center.

    No matter how you find TDC, it is a simple enough circumstance to install a degree wheel and check yourself. Then simply make up a spark plug stop (again see the method in 40 years On..whereby you bust up an old plug, thread a bolt into it, and set it precisely at TDC)

    I have utilized my spark plug stop guage a couple of dozen times to re-time my bike and am "chuffed like a parrot" to say more often than not she has started first kick after installing the mag.

    Once again, the installation of the mag, figuring out precisely where the points open, is covered in the "40 Years On" but to summarize, you take out the center bolt, hook up a small dash style light, watch it go on and off..and you 'll know precisely when the points break.The do break electronically a bit faster than visually...I know many have used cigarette paper and a "feel" method..which works well too.

    Measuring this spark plug angle is, yes, like measuring with a mike and cutting with an axe.I love that analogy..and had forgotten it.

`    Remember to block open  the ATD when setting the mag...

    I know from experience this procedure can be done on the road..and I feel confident the measuring down the hole method has started many a Vin over the years as well. My point is, make the spark plug stop, carry it with you and you'll never have to worry about where 38 or 39 degrees is again.       Carl Hungness  03/30/01

I then switched to HD stuff fitted to the Mistral housing which I still run. Dan Smith started this, now many local bikes run it, and John McDougall has been making housings to suit. The benefits are many. Two stage advance curves operated by a vacuum switch. Low power draw. Parts available very readily. You can tuck it all under the mag cowl. There are for those who like to fiddle with that sort of stuff, programmable boxes that you can program more stuff than you'll ever need. Do you need to have&nbsp; nitrous arming and firing points?&nbsp; How about if you have and electric start you can program the engine to turn over a designated number of turns before it fires to avoid backfiring on start up.  Robert Watson  03/09/01

Hello John,   It depends upon what regulator you are using.  If you are using the original Lucas mechanical, there is no problem.
The voltage to excite the field actually comes from the generator armature and is switched on and off by the regulator. (this is how they regulate maximum voltage)   If you are using K-tec, then the answer is no.  Because the K-tec uses a Darlington transistor for field switching, which requires 1.4 volts to initialize, they use battery voltage to excite the field.   On the other hand, if you are using the PODtronics DC regulator, there is no problem as it will operate very nicely without a battery in circuit.  (and it fits inside the mechanical regulator box)  Bob Kizer  02/27/01

I tested prototypes for ALTON.  My findings were that electrically it was just fine right from the start and once they got into production any minor mechanical problems had all disappeared.  It's a nicely built piece of equipment and is a direct replacement for the original Miller unit except it is 12V.

BTW...I run magneto ignition--no particular reason except it has never failed me.  It does have an advantage if I leave something on and run the battery dead.  Jay Schaffer  02/13/01

There are several ways to control the Wattage: (One) Speed Control, that's the thing your right hand does. (Two) voltage control. That's the thing the regulator does to the field windings of the Generator. There are two ways that you as a Vincent rider will deal with hooking up the field to the voltage controller. (One) in Series with the Armature; (Two) in parallel, or
Shunting, The Armature. You can hookup any Miller, Lucas, Bosch or Chinamo to do either. JG units are hooked series, or externally grounded, K-Tec, Lucas regulators are hooked Parallel or, internally grounded. By looking at the drawings in KTB, Richardson, diagrams that were supplied with your regulator or, by looking in an old Auto repair manual you'll be able to see these differences. Since all these Generators were made to run in motorcycles you can see the speed part of their rating can be anywhere from less than two thousand to over seven thousand RPM! If they are not overheating they are safe, so go ahead and spin the generator a little faster, it won't bother it a bit. One Hundred-Twenty watts at twelve volts is still in the working range
of Your Sixty watt, Six volt Generator.  John 12/20/00 

However, a later modification on this side of the pond is to fit the distributor from a car and have 12 volts with an out put of 15amps or more. One of the favourites is the generator from a Citroen  2CV, due to it's small size.  As I have plans to update my lighting and possibly fit an electric starter,  I have fitted a car generator to the Comet.  Of course there is much more room to fit it on the Comet, so I have fitted a slightly larger generator that has the rectifier pack and the regulator mounted under
the end cap.  This is driven from a small dummy dynamo incorporating a pulley at the non-drive end which in turn drives the alternator with a poli-V  belt. The finished results have been very impressive, with the alternator balancing the load of every item on the bike at a fast tick-over.  Derek Peters  12/20/00

If you use a JG converter or similar you can use a 60/55 watt headlight bulb bulb. The converter will (or should) protect your delicate little field coil from harm by limiting its current.  At 12 volts, the field coil might draw as much as 6 amps.  Bob Kizer  12/14/00

If you are simply trying to run a 6 Volt generator at 12 Volts exercise caution: the field coil will have the full 12 Volts impressed across it. Since resistive power increases with the *square* of voltage (all else being equal) your poor filed coil will be asked to dissipate *four times* the energy it was designed for.  So generally the voltage across the field coil is limited to 6 Volts.  The easiest way to do so is with a series resistor.  But this may not be the most efficient.

The situation with the armature may not be so bad.  Again, assuming the desire is to run a 6 Volt generator at 12 Volts the load (lighting, field coil, accessories, etc) may be specified such that the current requirements may actually decrease (a primary advantage of higher Voltage systems).  In this case a 6 Volt armature may work... but at the price of requiring higher RPM.

My take on this situation is:
  1. A 45 Watt bulb puts out just about 45 Watts wether it is 6 Volt or 12.
  2. All things being equal 12 Volt systems require less current, therefore are more forgiving of sub-optimal electrical connections.
  3. There is an upper limit on what you can get out of a 35 Watt generator.
  4. There is no upper limit on what you can put into a 35 Watt generator, short term.
  5. It is my opinion that if you want a 12 Volt system you should convert to 12 volt components (field coil, armature).
Doug Wood  12/14/00

 You can flash the field for one of two reasons, or both. 1)  To reverse the polarity or 2)  To restore residual magnetism.  In this situation, we are doing it to increase the residual. Remember, the mechanical regulators can initialize with as little as 0.1
volt.  But due to the characteristic of silicon solid state devices, they must have in excess of  0.7 volts.  This can be  accomplished by either flashing the field, or spinning the armature faster and faster.  The residual magnetism decreases with time.  If the bike hasn't been ridden in several months, it's possible this will restore the lighting.

The Miller (and Lucas) should have two outlet termainals.  One should be marked "F", and the other marked "D".  The green wire from JG should go to the F (field).  The "D" terminal will most likely have blue or yellow.    I'm betting that flashing the field will restore operation, but if it doesn't, you might want to consider the PODtronics.  They are designed to be more efficient and
therefore consume less power,  thus generating less heat. And they're small enough to fit nicely inside the Miller and Lucas boxes.  And yes, the "hot" terminal is the one that isn't earthed.   Bob Kizer 12/14/00

Nevertheless,  after some correspondence with Mark Goodson I am pretty well convinced that the Chinamo he discovered is well worth looking into..it generates a very healthy output, and is reasonably priced. Available from the VOC Spares company. The main problem with the generating system, my research has shown, is not the generator itself, but the regulator. And nowadays we have our choices of several modern ones that seem to handle the load with consistency

Personally, I love the idea of being able to start  the bike and drive it home, without a battery. Then again, after doing considerable damage to my knee last summer I am looking forward to the day I can afford an electric starter..but I'll still keep the magneto.   Carl Hungness  9/'29/00

Issac Lynn "Taff the Horn"
20 the Glebe
Bishopston, Swansea,
West Glamorgan SA3 3JP
South Wales, UK
lynn.isaac@tinyworld.co.uk